HOW IS THAT RACIST?
I just don't get it. I don't understand why a man from China would be offended if referred to as a Chinaman. After all, you call a man from England..an Englishman. You call a man from France a Frenchman... for that matter you call a man from Germany...GerMAN. Johnny Molson of Molson and Lee tried to explain it to me. Listen here.
posted by Pamela Furr at
7:31 AM
25 Comments:
We're not talking about the people who built the railroads.
"Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
Why? I'm looking for an explanation, please. "Just 'cuz" doesn't work
I know that like most privileged, white conservatives you think you're an expert on what people of color should find offensive. Words become loaded with meaning because of their history. You could try harder to see things from other people's perspective but if you were able to do that you might turn liberal.
That's why I'm asking for an explanation of the history of the word Chinaman. Maybe, cracker, as a liberal, you should learn to read.
Q: What do you call a punch drunk Japaneese boxer whose father has diarhea?
A: A slap happy jappy with a crap happy pappy.
Hope this helps..
Pam,
Just because someone from England is called an "Englishman" or a person from Germany a "German," does not make a person from China, by default, a "Chinaman." The person is Chinese; and if you want to get really technical and anal, a person from China may prefer to be called a Hans or a Manchurian or a Tibetan.
The term Chinaman is a deragotory term, stemming back to the good old days where Chinese were our slaves working on the railroads. It's kina like calling someone from Niger a Niger-man.
Blevins,
Learn how to take a joke..
From what I can tell, the term is "generational" in that.. man those of my generation had never even heard the term used in a deragotory way. Examples: a Seinfeld episode where a character referred to opium as "the Chinaman's nightcap; In 2001, the Chicago Sun-Times was chastised by William Yashino, Midwest director of the Japanese American Citizens League, for using the term Chinaman in two of its columns; and In March 2007, media mogul Ted Turner used the term in a public speech before the Bay Area Council of San Francisco, California. Community leaders and officials objected to his use of the term, and immediately called for an apology.
When I have used the term, I was only referring to a man from China as a Chinaman. Asian-American won't always apply, will it? After all, African-Americans aren't all from Africa. They're born and raised in America, but because (for whatever reason) "black" is discouraged from use, African-American has been adopted. I have a Scottish heritage, but I wouldn't ask anyone to call me a Scottish American.
Born in China? You're a Chinaman. Why is that a bad thing?
Born in Africa doesn't make you the "n" word. The "n" word was meant to be demeaning, wasn't it?
Born in China? You're a Chinaman. Why is that a bad thing?
Born in Africa doesn't make you the "n" word. The "n" word was meant to be demeaning, wasn't it?
because... "Englishman" was never used as a slur. "Chinaman" was used as a slur. ...and just like the "n" word, it is intended to be demeaning
That's Mister Chinaman to you, Feirberger`.
so as someone of Scottish heritage, would you rather someone call you a Scotman (or Scotwoman in your case) or Scottish?
Being called a Chinaman is a bad thing because one it is not what Chinese people prefer to be called. Just as you would probably would not prefer to be called somethings that Americans are called (ever heard of an American-man?) and two because it is insulting.
But then again, when you are a white American, it is all right to step all over the cultural sensitivities of others. God bless America!
putting aside the fact that blevins is a whiny idiot...
The fact that "we" might not find it offensive, doesn't mean that there isn't, and shouldn't, be a sensitivity to the word. (Which I think is what blevins wanted to get across, but couldn't seem to get a handle on having a conversation without being a snobby-guilt-ridden-white-liberal).
To use this example, "Negro" and "Colored" may not be as viscous as "Nigger," but the first two are still considered inappropriate.
Once it becomes generally accepted to be inappropriate, your lack of knowledge on the subject doesn't undo the fact that Chinese people would rather not be called that, and that the history of the word is such that it was used in a derogatory manner.
"GerMAN," as you try to put it, is not the same thing. Chinaman is to the Chinese as "Kraut" is to a German. "Jap" might be to people of Japan. Or "Wop" to an Italian.
We might be able to argue that those words are not as socially ugly as Michael Richard's favorite word... but, us white-folk can't very well tell somebody what they should or should not be offended by. Especially because us white-folk have never been in a position of being mocked, kept from employment, interned during a war, or beaten for using a drinking fountain.
I'd drop it if I were you, Ms. Furr, and simply accept the fact that "those people" would rather not be called Chinamen.
Are you mooslum ?
to because:
wow, I'm a whiny idiot. I've never been accused of being a snobby-guilt-ridden-white-liberal before. Thank you for helping me see the light of my true nature.
Knew that it was a matter of time before someone started throwing insults.
yeahhhhhh... cuz you were being so "above board" with your "white American... stepping all over other cultural sensitivities of others..." line.
as if, perhaps, that's just what white-Americans do. (rolling eyes)
Christ, man... don't whine AND lie at the same time.
wow, now I'm a liar. How exactly? Know what, never mind. I think I was being pretty civil in my posts, but like a coward you hide behind a fake name and hurl insults. Howz this:
"Because" is a douchebag conservative who can't debate people on what they say so they must resort insults, name calling, etc.
"blevins" is a name? I thought it was some kind of boil. (this is fun)
Anyway - you are a liar because you started the flaming. Just responding in kind because it seems to be how you are most comfortable.
Okay, children. Stop being petty and let's have a serious conversation about this topic.
My sister pointed out something to me that I think makes a lot of sense. Alot of "Chinese" people who are running the little cookie cutter "Chinese" restaurants, are really KOREAN and/or VIETNAMESE.
Sure, it's advised to avoid by journalists, but I'm telling you... because the word isn't used very often anymore, there's a whole entire generation that has NO CLUE that it would be considered offensive if used.
I also contend that WE ARE THE ONES that give these word their offensive power. What happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"? If someone says to me, "You're nothing but a redneck hick" the only way that it's offensive to me is if for some reason I believe the person might be right. Otherwise, eh -- say what you want. I know I'm a southerner.. who loves her ice tea.. who likes to say "I do declare".. and lives off of big daddy's money.
I apologize Pam. And Because, Blevins is my last name, and I take a lot of pride in it. I apologize if you think I was flamming, spamming, etc. You seem like a real class act so I humble myself before you.
My contention with my comments are that the term Chinaman is offensive because of the negativity associated with it from the past and present. Just because someone does not understand why one term or the other is offensive is regardless.
Call it white liberal guilt or whatever, but the feigned ignorance of why people take offense to certain words is demonstrative of the arrogant nature of a lot of Americans. That was my contention. It's not that people don't know how to say Chinese and the use of a word like Chinaman seems like it is used to be insulting. I am as guilty as anybody of using mean-spirited words in regards to people's ethncity, knowing full well the hurtfulness of them...but to claim to not understand why they would take offense seems a little deceitful.
Pam,
In general people don't go around referring to each other as "Frenchman", or "Englishman" anymore. The English and French hated each other, and the Irish (i.e., Irishmen) were mistreated by all.
They each came up with ethnic slurs to refer to each other.
With the advent of multinational corporations, jet travel, high speed rail, and the global telecommunications network, national borders are rapidly becoming a relic of the past.
Look at the EU as one example, and the United State's pourous border for another.
I'd say whether it's racial, or ethnic, if it offends people it should be avoided. The world is just too small, and weapons are just too powerful for people to be thinking in terms of race, ethnicity, and nations.
Not if we want to survive.
Anybody here Chinese?....Then how the hell would you know if it's offensive or not?
I may not be Chinese but I from from Pekin, and that's pretty damm close.
I am so sick of hearing (fill in the blank)-american used.
for gods sakes if you are here you are american. it should be left at that, not something-american, just american. We are not dogs with pedigrees, and none of us are so pure that you can claim one ethnicity as your own unless you just immigrated here, we are all AMERICANS!
Wow, why dont you call me a damn cooley? Call me a Korea Man, please god do. Youre ignorant, by refering to someone of chinese descent as a chinaman youre already showing that you havent even taken the 10 seconds to google or wiki what would be the proper nomenclature to call a chinese person. And then you go say some irelevant fact that a lot of koreans own japanese and chinese restaraunts. Both countries occupied korea at some point, wouldnt that cultural exchange make sense? Great, Will Anderson replaced by some air head bimbo.
Pamela,
If people want badly enough to be offended, they will usually discover a way.
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